MSC 2025: Townhall discusses 'a plan for Ukraine'

As Donald Trump is taking the US out of international forums, China is expected to move into the gap. But is Beijing capable of replacing the US? And does it even want to?

Read more of DW's analysis from the MSC here.  

US Secretary of State Marco Rubio stressed to Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov Washington's commitment to ending the war in Ukraine, the US State Department said.

The two top diplomats spoke on the phone, while European leaders and top diplomats discussed the future of Ukraine at the Munich Security Conference, which Rubio also attended.

"The secretary reaffirmed President Trump's commitment to finding an end to the conflict in Ukraine," US State Department spokeswoman Tammy Bruce said in a statement. "In addition, they discussed the opportunity to potentially work together on a number of other bilateral issues."

Russia's Foreign Ministry said the pair expressed a "mutual willingness for cooperation on topical international issues, including the settlement around Ukraine, the situation around Palestine and the whole of the Middle East, as well as other regional areas."

"They agreed on regular contacts, including for the preparation of a Russian-American summit meeting on a high level," the Russian Foreign Ministry said. Trump said he will meet Putin in Saudi Arabia, after the two leaders spoke on the phone earlier this week.

Speaking at a Munich Security Conference panel dedicated to the situation in Ukraine, Keith Kellogg, the United States special envoy, emphasized the US's determination to end the war in Ukraine.

He said that talks aimed at ending the war between Russia and Ukraine could focus on targeting Russian leader Vladimir Putin's oil revenues.

"Russia is really a petrostate," Kellogg said, adding that Western powers need to do more to effectively enforce sanctions against Russia. He stressed that Putin could have to make territorial concessions. 

However, it is too early to say when US President Donald Trump's plan for Ukraine will be ready, as the Trump administration has only been in power for 25 days, Kellogg said.

Still, it is important to engage Russian President Vladimir Putin in talks to end the war between Ukraine and Russia, he added. "Whether you like it or not, you have to talk to adversaries," said Kellogg.

Meanwhile, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Andrii Sybiha said there was a "very simple recipe for how to end the war — leadership of the United States".

He also added that his country was ready to discuss "deeply" with the United States how to proceed in ending the war with Russia, and that transatlantic and Ukrainian security were indivisible.

Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski stressed that the EU must provide money for common defense, adding that it would not be fair if border countries had to pay more.

And Lithuanian Defense Minister Dovile Sakaliene said the EU could do more to support Ukraine. “If we are prepared for an imperialist war, this is our only chance to avoid it,” she said.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he agreed with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz on continuing "cooperation in strengthening Europe."

The two leaders met on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference.

"We had a substantive discussion on joint steps toward achieving a lasting peace, security guarantees, and Europe’s role in a potential peace process. Any agreements must not disregard European interests," Zelenskyy said on X.

He added that he thanked the German chancellor for "Germany's support for Ukraine since the beginning of the invasion, especially its leadership in strengthening our air defense."

"I also thanked him for opening a Ukrainian Unity Hub in Berlin in the near future," Zelenskyy said.

At the Munich Security Conference, US and European politicians take part in a town hall discussion entitled "Peace Through Strength: A Plan for Ukraine," moderated by DW's Sarah Kelly.

The panelists include Ukrainian Foreign Minister Andrii Sybiha, US Special Representative for Ukraine and Russia Keith Kellogg, Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski, UK Foreign Secretary David Lammy,  and Lithuanian Minister of Defense Dovile Sakaliene.

Swedish Defense Minister Pal Jonson called for Ukraine to become an ally within Europe, with the perspective that Ukraine could join both NATO and the European Union.

"I think that's very important to have that NATO continues this open door policy," he told DW on Saturday.

Jonson also said that in talks about a possible peace deal for Ukraine, the country should be helped to negotiate from a position of strength. 

"What we do know is the more we align the European position and the American position, the stronger the Ukrainians will be and the more pressure there will be on the Russians," he said.

The Swedish minister said his country would continue to support Ukraine and praised the speed and innovation of Ukrainian defense production, in which Sweden also invests.

"They have about 800 plants now who are producing defense equipment. They have tenfold increase too. By investing into that model, you can ensure that you quickly can get military output," Jonson said.

Europe had to quickly increase its own military production and capabilities, he added.

JD Vance’s speech was a real bombshell at the Munich Security Conference. Europeans were ready for tough talk on how they have to get serious about defense (something most admit he’s right about). 

But they were not ready for what Vance delivered: a condemnation of what he portrayed as European violations of shared values of free speech and democracy. His implicit backing of the rightwing populist Alternative for Germany (AfD) party was seen by many as an unprecedented intervention in the domestic politics of an allied country, just over a week ahead of German elections. 

Many spoke of this as a kind of cultural and political turning point in the transatlantic relationship. An unintended consequence could be that Vance’s speech creates an opening for China to improve relations with Europe, which had been seriously damaged by Beijing’s implicit support for Russia’s war against Ukraine. Chinese delegates in Munich certainly see the opportunity. Something to watch out for in the unpredictable months to come.

Hundreds of demonstrators protested on the second day of the Munich Security Conference in the Bavarian capital.

City authorities set up a security zone around the Bayerischer Hof hotel, where the conference is being held, and a flight ban was imposed over the city, including on drones.

Demonstrators highlighted a range of issues, including greater democracy, diversity and disarmament, with many calling for human rights to be respected and for hatred and war to be opposed.

Police estimated that around 1,200 people had gathered at Karlsplatz (Stachus) Square, about 500 meters from the Bayerischer Hof. The demonstrators were to march through the city center to Marienplatz Square.

Another march was to start from Königsplatz to the north, where police said up to 600 people had gathered by mid-afternoon. 

There was another protest at Odeonsplatz, where the various protests formed a human chain.

Some 5,000 police were reportedly deployed to provide security for the conference, which began Friday and ends Sunday. 

French Foreign Minister Jean-Noel Barrot spoke to reporters at the Munich Security Conference about what's at stake for Europe in terms of security.

"We need to prepare. We will have to face difficult days, make complicated decisions and even sacrifices which we weren't expecting until now to ensure this security," Barrot said.

The French foreign minister said he had held talks with US Secretary of State Marco Rubio. Barrot said that in his view, the Trump administration was still forming its opinion over how the US should handle the Ukraine crisis.

Previously, Barrot had defended European policies in response to Vice President JD Vance's speech.

"Freedom of expression is guaranteed in Europe," Barrot said on X.

"Nobody is obliged to adopt our model, but nobody can impose theirs on us," the French minister added.

Switzerland's President Karin Keller-Sutter said on Saturday that she shared many of the "liberal values" expressed by US Vice President JD Vance, seeing his controversial Friday speech as a "plea for direct democracy."

The speech drew sharp rebukes among many European leaders, but the Swiss president said she saw it differently.

Keller-Sutter, Switzerland's finance minister who currently holds the country's one-year rotating presidency, urged calm and praised the "very liberal principle" expressed in the speech.

In an interview with the Le Temps daily published Saturday, Keller-Sutter said that "in a certain sense, [the speech] was very Swiss in its call to listen to the population."

She highlighted that Vance had spoken about the need to "defend values that we share, like freedom and the possibility for the population to express itself."

In his speech, Vance slammed EU "commissars" for suppressing free expression and charged that "across Europe, free speech, I fear, is in retreat."

Asked if she agreed with Vance's accusation of EU censorship, Keller-Sutter said: "That is his opinion."

"He also affirmed a very liberal principle that I share: you must not simply share the opinions of others. You must also fight for them to be able to express them."

Even though the mood at this year's Munich Security Conference was rather tense, there were also some funny moments.  

During a panel at the Munich Security Conference, the Christian Democratic Union candidate for chancellor was addressed as “chancellor”. The Polish moderator and head of the Warsaw Security Forum immediately corrected herself and said: “I mean party chairman, of course.” 

A visibly amused Friedrich Merz replied: “Thank you for the compliment. But there are still 60 million votes between us”. Laughter then broke out in the audience.

It was not the first time that Merz felt he was being treated as a de facto chancellor. On the first day of the Munich Security Conference, US Vice President JD Vance spoke to several German politicians around the table. Chancellor Olaf Scholz was not there. Friedrich Merz was.

But Chancellor Olaf Scholz also had his moment. As he sat on the stage and talked to Zanny Minton Beddoes, the head of the British “Economist," she asked: "Was there any content in US Vice President JD Vance's speech that was worth talking about?"  

“Huh,” replied Scholz. The Chancellor asked ironically whether she meant all the “really relevant” statements about security and defense in Europe. Laughter, again, broke out in the hall.

In a statement on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference, the foreign ministers of the G7 group agreed to continue working together to secure a strong peace deal for Ukraine.

They advocated for robust security guarantees, linking future sanctions on Russia to good faith negotiations by Moscow.

"Any new, additional sanctions after February should be linked to whether the Russian Federation enters into real, good-faith efforts to bring an enduring end to the war against Ukraine that provides Ukraine with long-term security and stability as a sovereign, independent country," the group said.

The G7, which includes the US, France, Germany, Italy, Canada, Japan, Britain and the EU, also underscored "the need to develop robust security guarantees to ensure the war will not begin again".

The statement included US Secretary of State Marco Rubio, even as US president Donald Trump recently mused about the possibility of readmitting Russia into the bloc, something that Moscow rejected, with Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov saying that the current membership in the broader G20 forum was more valuable.

The organizers of this year's Munich Security Conference (MSC) had hoped that they could also put a spotlight on other crises around the world, and on the collaboration between the Western alliance and the global South, as they call it. 

But again, I have to say the Munich Security Conference this year takes time at the very exact weekend that the African Union, for example, is holding their big summit in Addis Ababa. So the global South is not present here, and the focus is very much on the question: "Have the Europeans understood the message?"

They are at a crossroads. The US has spoken very, very clearly here and now. It is up to the Europeans to find a way of getting together and getting more organized. Putting national vanity aside, they still haven't agreed on who is going to talk to the Americans, for example.

They make it very clear that Europe does want to sit at that negotiating table when it comes to the US announcements to try and end the war in Ukraine, and that they don't want to be bypassed, but they would have to find somebody who can represent them, because Donald Trump is not going to be prepared to talk to 27 nations.

Germany's conservative CDU leader and candidate for chancellor, Friedrich Merz, joined his political rivals in condemning US Vice President JD Vance's speech in Munich.

The conservative leader's comments echoed Scholz's defense of German laws against hate speech and his rejection of any foreign intervention in Germany's election.

Merz opened up his participation in the panel saying there was "an elephant in the room," referring to the transatlantic relationship between Germany and the US.

He said Germany respected the results of the 2024 presidential and congressional election, adding that "we expect the US to do the same here."

"We stick to the rules imposed by our democratic institutions, this includes our own legal approach to deal with for example, published information and opinions," Merz said.

Merz said that Germany is a staunch defender of freedom of speech "but fake news, and hate speech, and offenses remain subject to legal restraints and control by independent courts."

"We would never kick out a news agency out of the press room of our chancery," Merz said, in allusion to the Trump administration's decision to not allow journalists from the Associated Press to attend briefings in the Oval Office or on Air Force One after they refused to accept "Gulf of America" in their stylebook. 

The conservative leader said his country was open to business and trade, in a clear rebuke of Trump's macroeconomic policy. "We don't believe in trade conflicts or even trade wars," Merz added.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said during an interview after his speech at the Munich Security Conference that a future government should create an exemption for spending on defense and security when dealing with the nation's constitutional limit on federal public debt.

Germany's debt brake rule is written in the constitution and it forces Germany to make ends meet with the money it takes in. Only in exceptional circumstances can the debt brake be lifted, and the government may take on new debt. Recently, Olaf Scholz has called for the debt brake to be lifted.

As the country faces new elections on February 23, Scholz said he was sure that the country's future leadership would have to put defense exemptions into place to loosen debt brake.

"It will be absolutely impossible to finance 2% and even more without changing the debt regulation we have in Germany. It is impossible," Scholz warned, adding that the current government has the money now with an extra fund, but this fund expires in 2027. 

He said that cutting domestic investment and raising taxes in order to pay for defense was not the right path. Scholz noted that many European countries are also dealing with this same question. 

When asked if a defense spending exemption should be applied temporarily or permanently, Scholz said that it could be "for a long time or possibly permanently." 

"Everyone in the G7 has a debt to GDP ratio of over 100% [except for] Germany," Scholz said, noting that the US, Italy and Japan all fell into this category. 

"So that's the reality we are facing. We have the strength, we have the power, and we have the economic capabilities to do what is necessary." 

When asked if the German public is ready for the scale of increased defense spending that he proposes, Scholz said yes. 

"There is a broad support for all those saying we should do more," he said. 

But Scholz added that if Germans are told that increased spending means the drastic cutting of investments domestically, they would not support it. The German chancellor said this is why the debt brake must be loosened, as it presents the only solution to the problem.