No work, no integration

Ms. Woellert, you have looked at earlier immigration phases in Germany, for example, the guest workers (known as "Gastarbeiter") and their descendants. What conclusions can be drawn from past experience?

Franziska Woellert: Today, you can see that Germany has felt and is still feeling the repercussions of missed integration opportunities. People were seen as guests - as revealed by the name - who did not need to be taken care of and certainly not integrated. Anything that happened in terms of integration was the doing of immigrants themselves and they faced many obstacles.

With regard to integration, what distinguishes ethnic groups from each other?

The ethnic groups differ mostly in their time of arrival. Most guest workers did not intend to stay a long time; also, they mainly came to work in low-skilled jobs. Thus, the level of education was accordingly low. This applies to many southern European immigrants in the early years, but also to the large group of Turkish migrants. And since no real integration measures had been implemented, the second and third generation of these migrants has not, in part, managed to make up for the lack of education of the first generation.

It was different for Iranians who came to Germany after the fall of the Shah in 1979. Why?

They were mostly people from higher classes, who were well-educated, had a better financial background and had an easier time in Germany because of their personal skills.

Qualifications are not asked for in asylum matters. But Germany's interior minister, Thomas de Maiziere, has said that up to 20 percent of the adult refugees entering Germany at the moment are illiterate. What does this mean for integration?

First of all, these figures are only estimates. At the moment, we have no idea how skilled the refugees are. Among them, one can probably find highly-skilled people, including academics. But there are surely people with a low level of education. We will have to meet this challenge. Most people not only have to learn German, but will also require a basic education. Right now, it is still too early to know the numbers.

In any case, what you're saying is that integration frequently takes place at work?

That's correct. The same goes for the refugees. Refugees don't leave their countries because they absolutely want to, but because they cannot stay at home. They are highly motivated when they arrive, as they want to build a better life for themselves and their families. They are highly motivated to take action and take things into their hands. And they should be given the opportunity to do so. Nothing is more frustrating than arriving at a safe place, only to be damned to idleness. One of the main tasks will be to provide the people with the opportunity to take charge of their own destiny.

A great number of people have gone to Germany. Do the high numbers set limits on the integration process?

Both sides must take part in the integration process. At the moment, the German population has shown enormous tolerance and willingness to accept the refugees. No one knows how long that will last. But it is extremely important that societal acceptance is maintained, as it will guarantee the long-term integration of these people.

What must we expect from ourselves and the migrants in order to make integration successful?

At the moment, both sides are extremely willing to approach each other. We must sustain that willingness past this emotional moment. The integration of refugees is a task that will accompany us in the coming decades. Both sides must assume responsibility. Most of the refugees are just happy to be safe and they hope to find new prospects here. We have to make sure that this hope does not eventually turn into frustration when they realize what cannot be done. And the German population must ensure that its helpfulness does not turn into frustration if it realizes that everything is not perfect and that not every refugee is eternally grateful, but that - like in any coexistence – you need to show tolerance for change and adapt to one another.

Franziska Woellert works at the Berlin Institute for Population and Development. She is co-author of the study "New potential" published in 2014 on the state of integration in Germany.

This interview was conducted by Christoph Hasselbach.